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tv   Key Capitol Hill Hearings  CSPAN  December 22, 2014 4:00pm-6:01pm EST

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just over a foot and a half. he said the guards told him because the prisoners were animals they would have to crawl like animals. a woman in the city of -- told how her brother tried to flee. when he returned officials found his hands and chained into the back of a truck before dragging him what he five kilometers, driving three loops around the city so everyone could see. his sister testified. when he fell down, he kept on driving. ors limited horri to prison camps. on december 18, the you and general assembly passed a resolution expressing grave concern at the commission's finding and condemning the
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violations of human rights. 6 member states voted in against, and 53 abstain. the resolution also encouraged the security council to take appropriate action to ensure accountability, including through consideration of referral of the situation in the democratic people's republic of korea to the international criminal court and consideration of the scope for targeted sanctions against those who appear to be most responsible. the security council should demand the dprk change its atrocious practices, which demonstrate a fundamental disregard for human rights and constitute a threat to international peace and security. we should take this on for three reasons. first, the dprk's response to the commission of inquiry report and to the prospect of today's session showed that it is sensitive to criticism of its human rights record.
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just look at all the different strategies north korea has tried in the past several months to distract attention from the to delegitimize its findings, and to avoid scrutiny of its human rights record. dprk the ramped up its propaganda machine, publishing its own report and claimingthe world's most advantageous human rights system. thedprk tried to smear repetition of hundreds of people who were brave enough to speak out about the heinous abuses they suffered, calling them human scum, bereft of even an iota of conscience. this was in a statement north korea sent to the security council today. and north korea launched slurs against the commission's distinguished chairman, justice kirby. the dprk deployed threat saying any effort to hold it more accountable for its trustees would be met with catastrophic consequences. korea's responses
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to threats, the smears, the cynical diversions show that the government feels the need to defend its abysmal human rights record and that is precisely why our attention is so important. the second argument for inserting additional pressure is that when regimes warn of deadly reprisals against countries that condemn their atrocities, as the north koreans have done, that is precisely the moment when we need to stand up and not back down. dictators who see threats are effective tools for silencing the international community tend to be emboldened and not placate , and it holds true not only for the north korean regime, but for human rights violators around the world who are watching how the security council response to the dprk's threats. the dprk is already shockingly cavalier about dishing out threats of staging nuclear attacks and has routinely flouted the prohibitions on proliferation imposed by the security council.
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in july, north korea's military nucleared to launch threats to the pentagon and the white house, and it threatened to launch a preemptive strike on the united states saying everything will be reduced to ashes and flames. in the most recent example of its recklessness, the dprk carried out a significant cyber attack on the united states in response to a hollywood comedy portraying a farcical assassination plots. systems andestroyed stole massive quantities of personal and commercial ada from sony pictures entertainment, not only damaging a private sector entity, but affecting countless entities who work for the company. the attackers also threatened actors,mployers, theaters, and people who dared to go to the theater showing the movie, warning them to remember the 11th of september. not content with denying freedom of expression to its own people,
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the north korean regime now seems intent on suppressing the exercise of this fundamental freedom in our nation. north korea also threatened the united states with serious consequences if our country did not conduct a joint investigation with the dprk into an attack that they carried out. this is absurd. ofit is exactly the kind behavior we have come to expect from a regime that threatened to take merciless countermeasures against the u.s. over a hollywood comedy and has no qualms about holding tens of thousands of people in kulaks. we cannot get into threats or intimidation of any kind. third, the international community does not need to choose between focusing on north korea's proliferation of nuclear weapons and focusing on its abuses against its own people. that is a false choice. we must do both, as we have seen throughout history. the way countries treat their own citizens, particularly those
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systems who commit atrocities against their people, and to align closely with the way they treat other countries and the norms of our shared international system. on november 23, a week after the u.n. adopted a resolution, north korea said all involved in its adoption deserve a severe punishment and warned again of catastrophic consequences. implypresumably all would more than 100 member states who voted for the resolution. the military also said if japan continued behaving as now, it will disappear from the world map. when a country threatens nuclear annihilation because it receives criticism of how it treats its own people, can there be any doubt regarding the connection between north korea's human rights record and peace and security? north korea did not want us to
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me today, and vociferously oppose the country's human rights situation being added to the agenda. if the dprk wants be taken off the security council's agenda, a can start by following the commission of inquiry's recommendations to acknowledge the violations a continues to commit, immediately dismantle andtical prison camps release political prisoners can allow free and unfettered access by independent human rights observers, and hold accountable those most responsible for its systematic violations. knowing the utter improbability of north korea making those at a long list of other necessary changes, it is incumbent on the security council consider the commission of inquiry's recommendation that the situation in north korea he referred to the international criminal court and to consider other appropriate action on accountability as 116 member states have urged the council to do. in the meantime, the united states will support the efforts of the office of the high
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commissioner for human rights to establish a field-based office to continue documenting the dprk violations ass mandated by the human rights council, as well as support the work of a special representatives. both should brief the council on you develop it in future sessions on this issue. it is also crucial that all of dprk's neighbors abide by the of -- givenrintable the abuses that citizens are -- to ninth this will continue welcome north korean refugees to our country and help provide assistance to north korean asylum-seekers in other countries. it is reasonable to debate the most effective strategy to end the nightmare of north korea's crisis.ghts c what is unconscionable and interest of the threat that the situation in the dprk poses to international peace and security is to stay silent.
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silence will not make the north korean government end its abuses. silence will not make the international community safer. today we have broken the council's silence. we have begun to shine a light, and what it has revealed is terrifying. we must continue to shine that flight for as long as these abuses persist. today cost session is another important step to mop and far from the last, for dependability for the crimes being perpetrated against the people of north korea. the council must come back to speak regularly about the dprk's human rights situation and what we can do to change it for as long as the crimes that brought us here today persist. that is the absolute minimum we can and must do. take you, mr. president. thank you, mr. president. hank the representative of the united states.
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i now give the floor to the representative of france. i would likeent, to thank others for their briefings. what they have described for us is the work carried out is outstanding in terms of its quality, and it is most welcome. it has provided us with a comprehensive overview on the violations committed by the north korean authorities in the 50 years. committed within the framework of policies decided on the highest levels of the state, as stated in the report, the last has shed light on the horrifying activism that of the regime of pyongyang used to subjugate its people. it will not be possible today to
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list a complete litany of these crimes murders, arrests, arbitrary detentions, support your, kidnappings, rape, and slavery,sappearances, impeding humanitarian axis, and the use of famine, and the list remains lengthy. hundreds of thousands of political prisoners have died in the camps of the past 50 years. violations affect, men , and they do not spare children. the regime seems to know no limits. the council has finally convened and gathered to hear the cries of distress of the victims. for the more these crimes are carried out and committed in the of security of absolute censorship, north korea has close off international media to human rights defense organizations as well as to the high commissioner or human
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rights. the commissioner of inquiry did not have access. mr. president, we cannot remain silent in the face of this nightmare. those responsible for this terror should be held to account for their crimes. the crimes committed will not go unpunished. it is a moral obligation for the international community as a onovic.ored by mr. sim there is no doubt that these crimes are all crimes against humanity. the recommendation of the commission of inquiry that the situation buford to the icc is one in which should therefore be considered carefully by this council. the court is a very guaranty of equitable and effect of justice. the fight against impunity both today and tomorrow of justice for the victims and future reconciliation are at stake.
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the high commissioner of the human rights also has a role to play. his office on the ground, being set up in field, should monitor the regulations of the report and develop the situation. they're often have to do to gather information on violations committed, and we would like to have the council be briefed regularly. mr. president, violations committed by the regime are a threat to international peace and security. they are part, an essential component, of a dangerous the pallets are in political system destabilizing the whole of the region. according to the words used by the commission of inquiry, the severity scale, nature of these violations reveal what is a unique state in today's world, a state unique in terms of terror, a pariah state. the international nonproliferation regime of nuclear and ballistic, a state which exports in breach of this
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council's resolution sensitive goods and technologies which can finance indecent lifestyles of their leaders and the repression of their population regularly struck by famine. the council could no longer --these crimes. by holding these meeting today's, the council sends a message to pyongyang. weight to long-held must be lifted. north korea's reality is obvious to all. the security council -- nothing, not even the nuclear black mayor of the regime, use to dissuade us from this meeting will now keep us from considering the situation. regime must take its responsibility for history and the combination of the international community. violations must now come to an
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end. prisoners must be released. the country must be opened up to the united nations. instead launching into a new cycle of provocation and repression, the north korean message andhear our finally choose the path of openness, of reconciliation and peace. thank you. the would like to thank representative of france for his statement. i now give the floor to the representative of nigeria. >> thank you very much, mr. president. thanks others for their briefings. [indiscernible] insuring that all human beings live in dignity. we also believe all states have an obligation to promote and protect the rights of their citizens. as one of the three principles
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of united nations, the organization has appropriate mechanisms for promoting and protecting human rights across the globe. this mechanism includes special, the nigeria knows that the dprk participated in the first and second circles of the -- we also note that the ambassador of the dprk met with this special representative on the situation of human rights in the dprk in october. toeria encourages the dprk maintain and indeed strengthen its engagement with the human with acouncil and -- view to promoting and protecting the rights of its citizens. i thank you. thank the representative
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for his statement, and i now give the floor to the representative of luxembourg. >> thank you, president. i would like to give my remarks thanking you for you having been willing to take the steps necessary for the situation in the dprk to be formally concluded in a council's agenda and for this public briefing to be held at the has to of 10 member states and members of the council, including my country, luxembourg. representatives for their briefings on the situation on the dprk and the consequences thereof on international peace and security. over the last decade, the dprk has methodically flouted
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international law, undermining the nuclear nonproliferation regime and defying this decisions of the security council. ignoring its international obligations, the dprk has proceeded since 2006 with numerous illicit and nuclear tests. the country has refused to engage with a dialogue with the international community and continues to offer regular .hreats of nuclear strikes this exacerbates the risk of conflict and constitute a threat to international peace and security. no one can deny this. t there is more, and -on an unrivaled scale, the most elemental rights of its people. this is documented methodically
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with rigor and transparency in the damning report published on 7 february two-- look into the -- to dprk. i will not run to the macabre committedrocities by the north koreans. this would make us all not seated. i would like however two underscore three points that come out in the detailed report of the coi. first, the series of violations that have been noted by the coi are within and covered by international law. the icc has chosen the existence of crimes against humanity. the office of these crimes benefits from full impunity as these actions are taken within the framework of policies
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ordered by the highest level of the state. third, these violations it without distinction the most vulnerable sectors of the population, women, first who are subjected to systematic discrimination and intolerable abuse, often sexual abuse, children, secondly, are the first victims of famine, and they are not spared by the political camps. i would like on these lines denote the testimony of mr. -- who escaped one of these camps. his testimony injures a small girl who had the audacity to pick up grains of cereal to quash her hunger, and i will quote from paragraph 7 of the report. a guard wouldek
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choose a child and subject that child to inspection to ensure that child had not stolen or hidden anything. 7 years had the bad luck to be chosen. in her pocket were grains of cereal. the girl responded she had picked them up in the street. the guard said he do not respect my teachings. the girl was beaten with a level of violence that led to her falling unconscious. we had to carry her home to her mother. the next day, when she did not show up at school, found out that she had died. we cannot separate the bellicose posture of the dprk on the international front
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of the revolting human rights situation that rains domestically or from the instigation, that comes at the instigation of the leaders of the north korean regime. i respect for human rights is a hallmark of a's stable society willing to live in peace with its neighbors. these conditions are present the -- and the entire region. it is essential to security council consider the regulations considered in the report. one of these recommendations, mentioned explicitly in the resolution on the situation, on human rights situation in the dprk, about the by a large majority of the -- on 18 to beer calls for the icc apprised of this manager. luxembourg fully supports this it isendation, as
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absolutely essential that those responsible for these unequaled in our contemporary times, committed by the dprk, to use the language of the commission of inquiry, be held to account for their acts. we believe that the security council should consider the adoption of targeted sanctions against those who are most responsible for these crimes against humanity committed in the dprk. we also invite the north korean authorities to authorize the visit of the special representative for the human rights situation in the dprk and with respect to the modalities of the united nations, applicable to fact-finding missions. this would be the sign that the dprk authorities are sincere in their willingness to cooperate with the special procedures of the human rights council, the hrc. further, given the scale of the
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discrimination suffered by women given the scale of the violation that they are victims of, we believe women should be officially apprised of this of theand be apprised scope of their competencies. president, today's meeting, a first of its kind, should not be without a follow-up. now that this item is on the security council's agenda, we encourage the council to regularly debriefed future on the situation in the dprk. the briefings we've heard today have strengthened our conviction that it is the duty of the council to closely follow the has ang situation, which intrinsic link to peace and , develop and respect for human rights, to paraphrase kofi annan.
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the work of to hail the commission of inquiry, and others.y they have been able to have us look at the reality of north , the land of the mistreated, powerless, and voices, and is excluded by the regime. there were, the work of the human rights council and the general assembly, today in the council, have allowed for a voice to be given to those without voice in the dprk. is international community not deaf to the suffering of these people. we will not abandon them to their sad fate. they are worthy of our attention and our support. basis until they
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are allowed to leave. i think the representative of luxembourg for that statement. i now give the floor to the representative of jordan. >> thank you, sir, for organizing this important meeting. [indiscernible] assistant secretary-general for human rights on their briefings on the situation in the dprk haveugh most of those who spoken on the floor defend a limited source of information, due to the possibility of investigation and inquiry at the dprk, in order to find a thirdhand of the attacks and that country, however, we find that the picture is very great
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regarding the situation in the dprk. constitutesn there a menace to the international peace and security. this is abundant clear by the threat to carry out a new nuclear experimental or develop twoballistic missiles or test their launch. all those constitute a grave violation of our security council resolution and the u.n. 's charter, or through the commission of grave and systematic violations of international humanitarian law as human rights, nearly every day. all this also includes the violation of the -- to food, to movement, and expression, in addition to the forced disappearances and in human treatment in the political
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detention camps. the security council should not ignore the situation in the dprk . it should make every effort in order to put an end to the serious violation of human rights and international humanitarian law in that country, to put an end also to the use of nuclear weapons and the threat of such weapons. in concluding, we call on the speedy make action is to meet the concerns of the international community by allowing the official representative on human rights asvisit dprk and to permit the humanitarian agencies to work inside the country. i thank you, sir. thank the representative of
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jordan for her stable. i now give the floor to the representative of the u.k. >> thank you, mr. president. i would like to thank the assistant secretary-general for their appropriately bleak briefings. in february of this year the international community seek a wake-up call to the truly shocking violations of human rights in the dprk. a 400-page report from you and commissioner of inquiry provided an unprecedented leak detailed insight into the appalling situation in the dprk. refusal todprk's cooperate, or allow access to the country, the commission gathered extensive testimony from witnesses and victims now living outside the dprk. what they heard painted a picture of authorities who are so frightened of losing control that indoctrination begins in
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the kindergarten. so scared of what will happen if ordinary people get a glimpse of the outside world that just owning a so insecure that religion is seen as divided loyalty and an act of treachery. the commission report describes the regime is so paranoid that punishments are extended to all families. so cruel that those fleeing for a better life are imprisoned, tortured and sexually violated. that it's goodbye and let hundreds of thousands die from starvation rather than ask the international assistance. the commission concluded that the systematic widespread and gross human rights violations being committed in the dprk are components of a totalitarian state without parallel in the contemporary world. they call on the international
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community to protect the people of the dprk. the international community cannot ignore such detailed and grave findings. we alongside international partners have worked to ensure the commission's report is a beginning and not an end. presence isup of a a practical demonstration of the international communities determination not to forget the people of the dprk. this field office will continue the commission's work of evidence collection as an important step to accountability. it is a reminder to those that any level of the regime operators who are responsible for these awful human rights violations that the world is watching and they should consider themselves put on notice. if the dprk fails to hold violators to account, the international community must be ready to do so.
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both the u.n. human rights council and the general assembly have condemned in the strongest terms the findings documented in the commission of inquiry report. and have demonstrated the widespread concern across the globe of the enduring misery of the north korean people. both bodies by overwhelming majority at encourage the security council to consider the human rights situation in the dprk. the united kingdom supports the call for the security council to consider appropriate action to ensure accountability, including through consideration of referral of the situation in dprk to the international criminal court. despite these calls from the u.n. membership, they were those who opposed the discussion in the security council today. the failure of states to abide by the universal principles of respect for human rights and financial freedoms has set out
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in the u.n. charter and the u.n. universal declaration of human rights is a legitimate concern. human rights, democracy and strong institutions founded on the rule of law are essential. without these key foundations in place, peace and security are at risk both in individual states and in the wider international community. that is why the united kingdom is pleased at the situation in the dprk has been added to the agenda of the council. we have been able to have this long overdue discussion. it is a signal to the dprk authorities of the international community's focus on the issues highlighted in the report. our message the authorities and pyongyang is this -- listen and engage with these concerns. the majority of the recommendations in the commission's report i directed
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towards the dprk government. it is the dprk government that holds the power to transform the lives of its people for the better. rather than continuing to deny the existence of human rights violations and refusing to engage with the international concerns, we urge them to accept and address them seriously. we are disappointed the dprk responded to the resolution by withdrawing the previous offers of dialogue and their invitation to the u.n. special commission visit the country for the first time. we urge them to reconsider. if done fully and without preconditions, these will be first positive moves towards taking the bold step of admitting there are problems and making a genuine effort to improve the human rights situation on the ground. the dprk has an opportunity. the united kingdom, like so many
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in the international community, stand ready to adjust our position in response to any concrete steps that the dprk takes to improve human rights in the country. if the dprk continues to flout the obligations they owed to their people, the us and ash in a community should be ready to address the situation. we urge the council to remain seized of this matter. i thank you. >> i think the representative of the united kingdom for his statement. i now give the floor to the representative of china. , china hasident stated its position against the involvement of the human rights issues in the dprk. china has been consistently against the politicize asian of human rights -- politicization
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with the pretext of human rights issues. -- wecurity council oppose adoption of any outside document by the council on the human rights situation in the dprk. neighbor. close towill never allow a war take place in the peninsula. the situation in the korean peninsula remain sensitive. we hope that members of the council and parties place in interest into the maintenance of peace and stability as a priority. doercise restraint and to easing of tension otherwise major provocation and refrain from any rhetoric and actions
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that may lead to escalation. continue to work for the realization of the dene uclearization and have dialogue. this petition is clear and firm. china hopes that the relevant parties will make a concerted effort to make real actions to create conditions for the talks with a view to maintain a the overall situation of peace in the peninsula. thank you, mr. president. >> i thank the representative of china for his statement. i now give the floor to the representative of chile.
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we thank the political affairs and the asg for human rights. we thank them for their briefings. we also thank the chad presidency for facilitating the inclusion of the dprk in the council's agenda. as one of the promoters, chile believes this discussion is timely and necessary. the beginning of the year saw the publishing of the report from the commission of inquiry established by the human rights council of the united nations. this establish existence of systematic, widespread human rights violations and the dprk. that in many cases constitutes crimes against humanity. it is important to underscore
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the agreement and convergences and the reports of the commission of inquiry and also the resolution of the human rights council and general assembly. they point to the same conclusion. it is a critical situation of human rights in the dprk. how does pyongyang react to the debate? dismissing it. alleging it is a political conspiracy and international smear campaign that governments also affirmed in written firm in a letter written to the secretary-general that they new nuclearake a test. this is a clear threat to international peace and security. it is of grave concern that the dprk continues
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to develop its nuclear program as well as its delivery systems at a great cost of the humanitarian situation for its people despite the sanctions the regime established. convictionthens our that we must adopt a broader focus that allows for us to prevent a conflict and the korean peninsula which would have regional and global consequences. approachar that the under which we have worked so far is not enough collectively. we must bring greater pressure to bear. mr. president, it is essential that the appropriate measures be to the to put in end human rights violations included in the reports of the secretary-general and the commission of inquiry.
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ende measures must put an to the impunity of the dprk. dprk to correct -- theirer access to country for these special procedures. freedom of movement and interviews with security arrangements made for the and those heter interviews. given the gravity of the situation and the dprk, we believe this first meeting under a new agenda item is a measure that is headed in the right direction. this is an initiative we support and that we supported in the meeting of the security council under the area formula last april. we hope this can be repeated regularly.
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thank you very much. >> i thank the representative of chile for his statement. i now give the floor to the representative of rwanda. >> mr. president, let me thank you. in request the situation and the dprk be formally placed on the agenda of the security council. want to thank the secretary general's group for the respective briefings. it is the worst violations in 1994 which were purchased -- perpetrated by the regime invited meetings like this which is to examine situations of gross violations of human rights. the early 1990's, the u.n. secretary did not pay much attention to the 1994 genocide
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in rwanda. 20 years later, rwanda is a member. we are ensured the international community is acting to protect and committed to hold people in account. it is stipulated in paragraph 138 -- 139 of the document of the 2005 summit. it provides of the state carries the responsibility from protecting populations from genocide, ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity. we need to fill this responsibility as well as the response ability to use other means to protect people from these crimes. failing to protect the population, the international community must be prepared to take collective action in
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accordance with the u.n. charter. we believe the circular to counsel should engage the dprk on the basis of these. mr. president, we take great concern of the report of the commission of inquiry which was the human rights council in 2013. we need to investigate the important human rights violations in the dprk. by the findings of the commission which documented several crimes like extermination, murder, torture, imprisonment, forced abortions and other sexual violence, and thetion possible transfer of populations, disappearance of knowinglynd acts of causing prolonged starvation. also, the abduction of chinese citizens. the commission concluded these crimes and mounted to crimes
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against humanity. it does not have any part of the consider a world. -- the contemporary world. did not comment on the report of the commission of inquiry. however, we are encouraged to hear there is a willingness to allow access to the dprk's territories and except technical ofistance of the office human rights. we hope this opportunity will be pursued. given the situation, rwanda voted in favor of the resolution of the general assembly concerning the human rights situation in the dprk. it was important that this council receives further information from the secretary of the situation as well as the
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implications of international peace and security. during our sessions, the dprk will be invited to discuss its views and have a general dialogue with the wider international community which could lead to a better understanding and improvement of the human rights situations in the dprk. mr. president, rwanda supports the commission of inquiry's recommendations for korean dialogue. we believe peace and stability in the peninsula and the resolution of disputes through dialogue are in the common interests of all parties. theeard all actors and korean peninsula, particularly the dprk, to engage in good faith in an effort to create favorable conditions for tlaks and achieving the d nuclear reservation of the peninsula. -- we would like to
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encourage the u.n. secretary and concerned you want agencies -- u.n. agencies in order to address issues of great concern contained in the report under the commission of inquiry. i thank you. >> i would like to thank the representative of rwanda for his statement. i will now give the floor to the representative of lithuania. >> mr. president, i thank you for convening this open meeting. the secretaries for their briefings. with the winnie welcomes this public briefing in the situation in the dprk. believe the gravity of the human rights violations in the
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dprk as highlighted in the commission of inquiry threatens to have destabilizing impact on the region and on peace and security. based on extensive research and testimony is a profoundly disturbing read as we have heard some of the quotes earlier. perished a thousands great deal more physically and psychologically maimed by the regime that seeks to dominate every aspect of the citizens lives and terrorizes them within. the idea of a social contract between the state and its citizens are reduced with those responsible to protect the rights of north koreans and enforcing almost complete denial of their freedom, religion and expression. extermination, enslavement, torture, forced abortions, prolonged starvation -- the list seems endless and no abuse is
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just too harsh or inhuman for the regime. massecades and even when starvation was claiming thousands of lives, the state gave presidents to military in clandestineng nuclear weapon programs, buying and producing hardware. 2006,r weapon states in 2009 and 2013 as well as per drop -- provocative rocket launches have been condemned by the security council and recognized as a clear threat to the international peace and security. as the commission of inquiry hads, the nuclear state has on partsconsequences of the population where food is scars. ce. crimes against humanity are being supported by the highest level of the dprk government. political prisoners and their families perish.
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a deprivation of food is used to control the population. children are stunted by mounted vision that's malnutrition -- noun attrition -- malnutrition. those who managed to escape are often forcibly returned in face persecution, torture and other detention. we took note of the indications of the dprk ready to engage in dialogues with international communities with the office of high commission of human rights and excited visit -- and a country visit. the dprk is now detracting that. we are sent to engage with the international community and allow unimpeded access and to start implementation and recommendations by the commission of inquiry. as long as the human rights situation in the dprk continues to deteriorate, it is important
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to make sure the international community is mindful of his responsibility to protect the population of the dprk. this regard, lithuania welcomes the resolution on the situation of human rights in the dprk. it submits the report of the commission of inquiry to the security council. we encourage the council to follow the general assembly's recommendation and take appropriate action to ensure accountability, including consideration of referral to the obvious situation in the dprk to the international criminal court and consideration of the scope for effective targeted sanctions against those most responsible that may constitute crimes of amenity. -- humanity. levy reach a conclusion by the commission of inquiry that crimes against humanity will
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continue unless the policies, institutions and practices of impunity remained in place. the security council should be remain engaged in allowing changes through implementation of the recommendations by the commission of inquiry without delay. the council should track progress of implementation by holding regular briefings of the u.n. high commission of human rights. i thank you. >> i think the representative of lithuania for her statement. i now give the floor to the representative of argentina. >> thank you very much, mr. president. sg for political affairs and the asg for human rights. for the respective briefings.
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what is going to repeat already described in the report. however, i will make more explicit the position of argentina on this point. following with grave concern that the situation in the dprk. argentina has voted in favor of each the resolutions adopted in the competent bodies, the human rights council and also in the committee of the ungm. among the most recent resolution of the human rights council and resolution of the general assembly. both condemn in the strongest the gross, widespread and systematic violations of human rights committed in this country , in the dprk.
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makeer, we would also clear we believe that the inclusion of this item in the agenda is an exception. reaffirms the council should be focused on the specific mandate that is given by the u.n. charter which has strategic vision that establishes the different bodies of the u.n. it is indicated and stipulated in the security council that has the responsibility to hear matters of international peace and security. it would not contribute to the proper functioning of the u.n. system for the security council to extend its work and its range of action. this exception, this decision which is an exception, should bet be eight precedent -- ba a precedent.
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however, argentina wishes to express its concern over the conclusion of the commission of inquiry that there are and have been systematic, widespread and gross human rights violations. we deplore this. we are also concerned regarding the conclusion of the commission of inquiry of the existence of crimes against humanity. argentina has been maintaining this council and in other forms nuclear andof ballistic missile programs in the dprk. and the risk these bring to the stability of the peninsula and the region as well as its applications on international peace and security. situations such as this recall to us of the importance of diplomatic means, negotiations, political negotiations for which reason all parties and his
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counsel should redouble efforts with thech dialogue name of bringing out a definitive resolution and a clear priority of declaring the peninsula free of nuclear weapons. as we see it, the government of the dprk must protect and ensure the human rights of their population. thank you very much. >> i think the representative of argentina for that statement. i give the floor to the representative of the russian federation. >> thank you, mr. president. we were against the initiative of convening today's meeting. we consider that it could lead to negative consequences from the point of view of the effectiveness of the security council and other u.n. system bodies. the council is often criticized that it is increasingly spending its time on matters.
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we provided more grounds for this criticism. issues of respect for human rights should be considered not here but at the human rights council. thebody which ihas active participation was created to discuss this issue and has been granted expertise to do just this. today's discussion is unlikely to promote international dialogue with the dprk participation in this issue. the authorities of this country stated they are ready for this. thank you. [laughter] statement. for your i now give the floor to the representative of the republic of korea. i would likeent,
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to express appreciation to the chad presidency for convening this meeting and the situation of the dprk. we also thank the secretaries for their briefings on the human rights situation in the dprk. it is unfortunate that this bite the international community's efforts to address the human rights issues of the dprk over several years, the situation has continued to worsen. it is warranting the security council's attention. earlier this year, the commission of inquiry issued its landmark report that raised international awareness on the gravity of the human rights situation in the dprk. following the report's release, we at the united nations have dealt with the issue in the human rights council and in the general assembly.
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why the general assembly has adopted multiple resolutions since 2005 on the human rights situation in the dprk, this year's resolution was unique in that it contained recommendations on the council's efforts. therefore, the councils decision to put this situation that in the dprk on its agenda is a necessary starting point for engagement. such engagement is crucial as we now understand the human rights violation in the dprk to be so systematic and widespread that they not only cause -- also pose a threat to regional and international peace and security. the council has taken necessary measures in other cases in the
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past where human rights violations were committed on a larger scale to constitute a threat to peace and security. likewise, the council needs to pay attention to the grave situation in the dprk. in this regard, we would like to express the conclusion that many of the violations found in the dprk amounted to crimes against humanity. it also recommended that the council play a crucial role in ensuring accountability, including through considering referral of the dprk situation to the international criminal court. my government takes serious note of the announcement of the u.s. government on december 19 that north korea carried out the cyber act on sony pictures entertainment and posed threats to movie theaters
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which were also mentioned in the briefing earlier. in this regard, we would like to express a deep concern over such acts which seriously undermine the openness and security of cyberspace and escalate international attention. believe that, we addressing the north korean human rights issue, not only promoting human rights as a universal value, but also maintaining peace and stability in the korean peninsula and in the region. the republic of korea hasn't working together with the international -- has been working together with the international community to improve the human rights situation in the dprk and provide assistance to the north korean people. we will redouble these efforts in the coming years. we urge the authorities of the
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dprk to take steps to improve their human rights situation. as the dprk previously expressed its willingness to do so, we will beginyongyang engaging with the international community through human rights theogues, including with special reporter on the situation of the human rights and the dprk and through technical corporation with the ohchr. in closing, the republic of korea hopes that this council will continue to play a vital role in in ensuring the north korean people will eventually be inalienabley their human rights and fun a mental freedoms -- fundamental freedoms. mr. president, speaking at this meeting is probably my last duty
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in the security council. when we first came to the council two years ago, one of the first issues we tackled was the dprk's missile and nuclear issues. country hasil, my dealt with many issues. viewe not party to with a to contribute to the work of the council. it is starting and ending with a north korean issue. coincidence.just a i am saying this with a heavy koreans,ause for south people in north korea are not just anybody. millions of south koreans still have family members and
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relatives living in the north even though we never hear from now theen though by separation has become a fact of life. we know they are there. just a few hundred kilometers away from where we live. read what is described in the report without it breaking our hearts. we cannot watch video clips from north korea without flinching on every scene. we cannot listen to stories of north korean defectors without sharing in their tears, without feeling as if we are there with them to experience the prejudice. as weore, mr. president,
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leave the council with the debate of the dprk's human , we have an ardent wish. a wish for people in north korea. our innocent sisters and brothers on the streets, in the countryside, in the prisoners camp who are suffering for no reason. we only hope that one day in the future when you look back on what you did today, we will be able to say that we did the right thing for the people of north korea, for the lives of man and woman, boy and girl who by the same -- to have the same human rights as the rest of us. thank you. >> i think the representative of the republic of korea for his
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statements. i will now make a statement in my national capacity as representative of chad. asg forish to thank the asgtical affairs and the for human rights and their briefings. the report on the human rights situations in the dprk as a great many of us have just said to the floor situation marked by massive violations in the dprk. the report covers systematic, widespread and flagrant human rights violations that have been and are being committed by the dprk. the report concludes in many cases these violations constitute crimes against humanity. the nature of these violations
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-- henceding to the coi urges action from the international community in order to tackle the human rights situation in the dprk. the icc inhaving this matter. we express our serious concern over the gravity of the situation, the rossi of the information in the report -- the rocity of the information in the report. the authorities have projected the report as well -- rejected the report as well as refusing access regarding the restrictions to the members of the coi. it has not had the latitude.
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the inquiries were undertaking with a great many north korean citizens outside of north korea. interviewed -- were interviewed. politicizationd of the human rights matter, especially well me know many situations were massive violations that were committed and continue to be committed. the international community has not even had the courage to report as much. how to explain this double standard. examples they errors committed in the past by the council in taking decisions, hasty decisions based on certain reports. the report indicates the situation of human rights in the
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throughout thed entire history of the country. if this is the case, we would ask why has this not garnered the attention of the international community since that. hen. we call for the countries with an influence over the dprk to help to clarify the allegations of massive human rights violations against the dprk. tncouraging the independence members have free access to the country and to leave the country. along these lines, we call upon the dprk to make a commitment to a direct and candid dialogue with the international community
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and the countries of the region. i thank you and i now return to my role as president of the security council. the security council has concluded. agenda -- theis meeting is now adjourned. >> north korea refused to attend the meeting because of u.s. accusations of cyber attacks on sony pictures. north korea now says there is evidence the white house was behind the plot of the movie. reports -- according
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to a network researcher, north korea's access to the internet was hit with outages and was off-line today. four officials networks connecting to the country to the internet which is owned by china, compared to the u.s. which has 152,000 networks. some of thek at programs you will find on christmas day on the c-span networks. atiday festivities start tenney in eastern on c-span with the lighting of the national christmas tree followed by the white house christmas decorations with first lady michelle obama and the lighting of the capitol christmas tree. just after 12:30 p.m., celebrity activists talk about their causes. the supreme court justice and former florida governor jeb bush on the bill of rights and the founding father. venture into the art of good writing with steve pinker. ., see the.m
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secret history of wonder woman. on american history tv on c-span 3 at 8 a.m. eastern, the fall of the berlin wall with c-span footage of the president george bush and bob dole with speeches with president john kennedy and ronald reagan. first lady fashion choices and how they represented the styles of the times. at 10:00, tom brokaw on his more than 50 years of reporting on world allianc -- events. that is on christmas day on the c-span networks. for a complete schedule, go to >> washington journal begin a weeklong series focused on authors. the book featured on today's program looks at the issue of posttraumatic stress disorder and how it is treated by the military. this is one hour.
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joins us now, author of the new book the invisible front: love and loss in an era of endless war. ofwas recently named one "new york times" best books of the year. it focuses on one family, but also focuses on the grapple -- grappling with ptsd. guest: he was an army officer who thought he would be an post-vietnam and was in for 34 years. jeff was the oldest, and he wanted to father -- although his father into the military. allhighest form of duty was he ever wanted to do. his brother, kevin, was more of an introvert. he was shyer and a bit more general -- gentle.
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he wanted to be in the military, too, but he wanted to be a doctor. but this is the life they chose. they want to follow their father and they wanted to serve. that is what led them into the rotc program in kentucky and what led jeff to iraq, and what unfortunately in many ways let kevin to his death. host: how did the two brothers die? tost: they were making plans play golf one morning. jeff is about to get commission into iraq. kevin didn't show up. jeff began to worry. asked his sister to knock on the door. the three of them were very close and were roommates. no knocked on the door and answer. she open the door and found him hanging from the ceiling. he was suffering from depression. when know later, jeff was in iraq. he was leading a foot patrol in falluja.
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he was leading from the front and thought something glistening near a bridge and turn to tell his men to stay back. just as he did, he exploded. and another died with him. one brother died by suicide and another regulator was killed. how were their deaths seen and talked about -- talk about how their deaths were seen and bookd about in your regarding the issues of mental health and ptsd. guest: with kevin, who committed suicide, many in his own family thought he said and violated god's law by taking his own life. it was not covered up by the family, but a small affair. when jeff died, it was kentucky news across the state of kentucky. the legislature had flags at half mast.
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hundreds at the cemetery. the full military honors with a general on the disney -- on ended me. knee.ded when given died, it was almost like his life was not talked about. he was erased out of the picture. visit to talk about a china in the book. father in the family, and how they were able to move forward after the death of their two sons cannot talk about them. guest: i've known them for five years. they become extra ordinarily close to me. even now, i wonder sometimes how they get out of debt. after having lost not one, but two children, how do they get out of that? and when they lost kevin and then lost jeff, for them, the question was, how do we possibly when our life
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choices may have led to the deaths. for mark, he was haunted by the fact that if he had not been in the military, maybe kevin and jeff would not have a legitimate. if he had not signified that he one of them to be in the military, they would have chosen different paths. and that will be with him until the day he dies. and for carol, she said, might son was -- my son was common to me for help. if i have followed the little breadcrumbs, i would have seen. and what she carries is that she did not see the signs. mark led the evacuation of new orleans after hurricane katrina. fighting out ways of suicide in the military. the way that the cultural interchange -- needed to change in how its opportunities to -- how it saw ptsd. host: kevin died almost 12 years ago.
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how far has the military come in that time in grappling with these issues are -- these ye issues you guest: there is a willingness to see these issues as real. there's money being spent in the way it was not things that before. doctors are being hired by the thousands. what you have not seen is the generals at the top of this hierarchy, and obviously, the military is the general definition of hierarchy. you do not see general sitting forward saying my career did not suffer. them worried that they will be seen as weak. for kevin, he took himself off of his medication. he was about to be commission an officer and had one more summer of rotc. he said, if they find out on medication, my crew will be over before it starts to stop people
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around you will see we as weak. and that has not gone away. , the authordreazen of "the invisible front: love and loss in an era of endless war." he will be with us for about the next hour here on the "washington journal." the numbers are on the screen. special line for active and retired military members, or members of their family. stories,o hear your especially in this hour of the washington journal. and yochi dreazen, i want to hear your story from these issues in dealing with your time in war zones. thet: i covered iraq for wall street journal and lived in baghdad for several years. when i came back on my new that
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was off. i'm in the there was something about me that was not the same as when i left. i would have a flash of anger as i was given at that table at a restaurant. i would wake up and not be able to fall back asleep. i very disturbing nightmares. i be up in the middle of the night and just be up. long time, a long time to accept that this was ptsd. that this was not something that i could just put my mind to and think my way through it. one reason why i was drawn to the book and one reason why i was able to write it was that the issues of many veterans, they are similar. i was hearing explosions and seeing the same sites. not likening a journalist to someone who has to fighting combat, but in terms of what you experience and what you live, it's similar. and many were correspondents are reluctant to seek help. the stigma is exactly the same. talk about the history of this stigma in past wars as well.
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there is no question that ptsd from therkest legacy vietnam war. it's one of the dangerous things about ptsd. you can be fine, psychologically, for decades. but it's simmering there. it's this darkness inside you that you do not see. and suddenly, 20, 30 years later it flares up and be devastating. it can be drinking heavily, taking drugs, killing yourself. and with ptsd now, the estimates 500,000een 350,000 to of the current veterans of this war have ptsd. that is not take into account the other 1.5 million that could develop ptsd over time. you immediately
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know it's there. with ptsd, you often don't and you cannot see it and you will not for quite a long time. we are not anywhere near knowing how high the cost of that is. host: again, if you are active military or family member of active military, a special line set aside for you. otherwise, the standard lines are all the same. if you have a question or comment as we are talking about this. kevin worrying about ending his military career before it started, and that is why he stopped his medication. can members of the military today take medication people know they are dealing with these issues without fear of losing their jobs or careers? guest: in many ways, it has gone to the other extreme, which is just as dangerous in my mind.
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right now, the medical health system is so overwhelmed that you go and say i need help often what you get is a prescription, because the doctors just on time to give you suck electoral -- psychological counseling. the military in its wisdom and put the base of the valley lament in range and the taliban controlled the top. they would rock -- rocket this base after day, week after week. every one of the people there xanax, ambien, zoloft, and because no one was watching with they were taking, they will be taking nine xanax instead of 3, 6 ambien instead of one. they had prescriptions, but they were taking them and dosages way beyond what you should. there is a risk to taking medication. there is a risk to coming off of it. when they come back, the risk one was stopping entirely. yes, you can get medication and military allows you to have it, but in many ways, they are giving you to often and in
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dosages letter way too high and too way too many people. carol, which he knew her son had some problems in the book, you talk about her looking for a psychiatrist, who took the , but beingi-care worried about being turned down, has the military system changed to make it easier to seek help on the front and? it's a very good point that you raise. it is a bit better. there are thousands or doctors than even just keep -- couple of years ago. there are more resources. there are more people there and more the ability -- more of the ability to usual insurance card and to get help, but the stigma is still there. even if you have the ability to get help, it might make you reluctant to seek it. that is the most dangerous part of this by far. host: what would be your
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recommendations as the one who has gone through it personally, who is a lot of time with his family and dealt with it. what would be your recommendation to get rid of the stigma? guest: two things. the first is the human one. i spoke to happen doesn't generals that i knew from afghanistan or iraq personally and all of them describe ptsd. in the military, they leave off because if you call it a disorder, it is a sickness. but there were flashes of anger, of all, inability to sleep. -- alcohol, inability to sleep. -- until youral have a senior generals stand up and say, look at this. and then talk about it. we need a cultural change. we've heard--host: the president talk about this issue. it just hasn't gotten to the
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generals is what you are saying? too,: they talk about it, but not personally. they talk about it probably is a subject, which matters, but not as much as a general that a soldier can look up to and say, that specific guy, he went through it and thought it and he lived it. you have not seen that. and you're not think people get promoted because they have mental health well in their units. ton you look at what leads someone getting promoted, this is not something that is looked at. you see that change, the culture within the military will not change either. the phone lines are open. i wanted to -- some phone calls -- i want to get to some phone calls as well. and also the line for retired members of the military. clifford, thank you for waiting. caller: good morning. i'm a u.s. air force retired
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vietnam veteran. and i just want to comment that your guests made a very good point, that ptsd is not just the type of disease that shows up on one of those -- i'm one of those cases. it was able to quit working -- it was not until i was able to quit working and stopped drinking that i realized that what i have been doing with self-medicating. i did go to the v.a. and was diagnosed with chronic ptsd. and that was 24 years after the fact. i want the veterans to know there are people out there. we have a group of vietnam monthns that meets once a with a psychiatrist. and we hammered out between ourselves, because we have the stories to tell. any veterans out there that have come back and they are having problems, please know that there are veterans out there that want to help. that is my comment. host: thanks for sharing your
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story. yochi dreazen, any comment? guest: first, thank you for your service, clifford. i think what he's talking about is very heroic. many veterans only feel comfortable talking to others in the world because they feel a zillion just cannot understand. a civilian did not go through the war i went through. cannotvilian just understand. a civilian did not go to the war i went through. they might let their guard down and trust us of the person more than a civilian. seeking help is a wonderful thing. them to, encouraging talk to other veterans is fantastic. thank you for making a point. caller: charles is on the line retired military. charles is on: the line for retired military. caller: i'm a first in color.
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i spent two years in the air force as a pj. i came back and i had no idea about ptsd, and i was a medic. i guess i was having symptoms of to that point, and in 2002, me and my wife got into an argument and i became so angry i ended up breaking her arm. and i had never been arrested in my life. system. the court but the good thing was that i was able to go to the v.a. for treatment. i was in the chicago v.a. side, which was hospital everye day. we had group and all of that stuff. they put you on your meds and all that stuff. you're coming in and talking to a psychiatrist.
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enter in a group. -- and you are in a group. i've heavily medicated at the time, but now less. i still feel the depression and i sit at home sometimes and i think about death more than i ever have thought about it. start feeling like, i'm tired. and things are just not important. you want to be isolated and they in the house. sometimes i don't even want to be around people. -- you want to be isolated and stay in the house. sometimes i don't want to be around people. and i got through two divorces. it is just, it is really something. host: we appreciate you sharing your story. kind of told he
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describes is all too common, both in terms of not recognizing it for decades after, but also acts of violence towards those you love, toward strangers, toward yourself. what he was talking about, and that was painful to listen to, of feeling isolated and not wanting to leave his house and feeling by himself, that is one of the worst things about this. you may have family and friends who love you, people who are there that want to help, but you don't want to talk to them. talkf the people that i about in the book talks about how when he came back, he felt sort of transfigured by the violence. he felt like he was a different person, and that he should not be near rigid people because he would infect them. there was something almost contagious about what he had seen and done. he pulled himself away from those who loved him. you have some who come back and do not have a support system, and some people who come back and they do, but they do not want to talk the people they love for fear of hurting them, or just that they feel there's
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something wrong with themselves that this person might catch. host: on suicides in the military, the color referring to suicidal. -- suicidal thoughts. today, -- i also want to bring up the national suicide prevention lifeline number that we have 1-800-273-talk. we have a line for military and their family, and also the regular lines open. a comment from edwin on twitter,
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who says that as a military vietnam veteran, the v.a. no -- the v.a. would not help us with our ptsd then, and i don't see much improved today. and monti asks on twitter, do those suffering from ptsd represent a threat to society ?ucca -- to society and to the second question first, i think that they can call and say yes, i have it. a lot of people will say, a veteran is a ticking time on. i may hire someone and five years now, tenures now, he may go nuts. veterans have a hard time getting a job because many zillions are scared of them. we live in a time where ptsd is talked about more, which is a good thing. a lot of the stigma around it, even in our civilian world is not there, which is a very good
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thing also but the downside is you have a lot of veterans with for the rest of the life will have to say to employers, people they meet, people they date, i'm not damaged. don't look at me like i'm damaged. don't think that i am a time down -- timebomb. it is a difficult thing to get past. the second person on twitter very accurately flagged. there are more resources. one thing that is heartbreaking, and a want to get back to your numbers for the people to put in perspective. more people have died from afghanistan, by a wide margin. typically veterans? guest: typically active duty and veterans. that one year was horrific for the military for one reason. up to that point in the suicide rate was rising, but the military can say accurately that , while bad,ate was
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less than than the civilian world. 2009 was the first year where the military rate was higher than the civilian rate. and since then, the margin has gotten bigger and bigger. it's not just that it's growing more than people in war, it's that it killed more than afghanistan. 3000 as compared to 2500. this time last year, that was the worst year. and the year before that was the worst year will stop -- the worst year. that we areng is nowhere near the top for suicides, even with iraq over and afghanistan winding down. we are not the top of this. we are still climbing. host: here's a picture of mark and carol graham from 2009 hold in the folder flag that they received after the death of their two sons. we are talking about in the book with yochi dreazen, an author
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.nd an -- and managing editor margo is on the line for democrats. old wound,s is an but my uncle peter was very dear to me was in the second world war, and his -- he was in at the very end of the war. warwife enrolled him in the because she wanted him to die. it was terrible. he was a train engineer. he would go into the northern part of france, and that is where the soldiers were dying toward the end of this, just i all over the place. he would come out of that area with potties -- bodies piled high in his trains. they would go to the coast and take the bodies out and he would go back and forth. it tore him apart. when i was little girl, i was
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the only one who he was -- he would talk to. he would tell me about this every time we would get together. and i never realized how important was that he talked to me. i was sort of the only one he would talk to and that is it. it's amazing, margo, that you were there to listen to him and a lot of the veterans of that era would not trust anybody. we think of the and of world war -- the men of world war ii, and it was phenomenally met even though there were women fighting. generation, during the war, half a million soldiers were kicked out for psychiatric issues. even his greatest generation, half a million troops were kicked out during the fighting because they could not function anymore. there is a scene from a book by a veteran named eb sledge who fought in some of the worst fighting in the pacific. extraordinary, harrowing, heartbreaking book.
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these are battle hardened marines. one of them gets up to just decides to charge for -- charge toward the japanese position where he would die instantly and he is pulled down by a sergeant. and he says to the officer, who is much anger, at some point you just break. you just can't take it anymore. i think margo, when she is talking about the pain of her family, the pain that this man carried, the fact that he could only tell it to one person, it's a reflection that this is something that is with for the rest of your life. host: and the scene margot about youre me think book, when they are transporting bodies in helicopter in the first gulf war. guest: that's right. that was his first exposure to death. he was flown to the staging area in kuwait. and when the helicopter landed, he makes -- they said, you might if we fly cargo back with you --
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do you mind if we fly cargo back to and did not tell them what it was. and it was soldiers. it was his sixth -- his first exposure to death and it shook him deeply. up to that point, he had not seen what does look like a close. unfortunately, he got much more exposure to it. he led the evacuation of new orleans after katrina. all of the tv stuff and mark did the work, and pointt point -- and one he went into the city and saw bodies and dead animals floating in the water and it was worse than what it seen in combat. but that first helicopter ride was his first glimpse into what death look like a close. host: tony on the line for republicans. caller: good morning. i'm curious, i'm a veteran of the korean war, and it was for cold, andar
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.e lost most 50,000 guys i was an infantry riflemen. i was diagnosed with anxiety. they did not have ptsd at the time. have no problems with it, you know, just the usual stuff. was there more then than now, or or is there something in the way we live that causes us to be worse at this time? do you know anything about that? guest: it's a great question and it's a little bit to track because ptsd as a diagnosis did not exist until not -- the 1980's, post-vietnam. you had shell shock and other phrases that were used. with the actual term ptsd was not used until the 1980's. knowing whether veterans of korea or world war ii or world
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war i had it, we can't track as much. , and i've seenra is a close, where you can be deployed in iraq and come back in a firefight -- from a firefight and talk to your spouse overstepped or chat with your kids over instant messenger. in one way, that's damaging post of you have no way to decompress. you are in this intense place, and you areine, only thinking about how to get back to this place, and then suddenly your wife with the best of intentions is talking about homework, or your kids are talking about sports. on the one hand, integrate into your because of normalcy, but it also reminds you you are not meeting a normal life. and that you being there has a human cost on them. there is no time to decompress. post-world war ii, and then came back by ship. they had weeks where they were just on a boat floating back to the u.s. away from the war and not yet home.
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today, you come home three days after your tour ends. you do not have that decompression. it's very dangerous. host: a few more stats on world war ii and the korean war from your book mother v.a. has continued to provide financial assistance to 19,000 veterans of world war ii and 12,000 veterans from the korean war. almost 11% tested positive for a mental disorder of some kind. we are talking with yochi dreazen about his book "the invisible front: love and loss in an era of endless war." ron is on the line for democrats. good morning. war is much more than
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the battlefield. we have scars that continue on members andfamily all. i would just like to say that mental illness in general, , orle fear mental illness the symptoms people have with mental illness. media,have the 24/seven television shows that portray these people as people to be feared. but the fact is that mentally ill people are more times than not the victims of violence. and the victims of being taken advantage of. i think we really need to take a look at that. my last thing is, how do you
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feel about military in the ?uture going to drones which bothers me, because right now, at least we feel the human toll on people and we have the incentive to stop it. drones, i just fear the future with that. multiple good points, and i think he's exactly right that the downside and many fears that civilians have about veterans, we should also remember that the military reflects us and we reflect military. suicide is the leading cause of death for silly and. ever since cars were created, car crashes had been the leading cause of death until 2010. now it is suicide. when we sit at home and we see videos with a normal car crash, we should bear in mind that more people, civilians, have killed themselves than have died in car crashes. that number is staggering. it is hitting the civilian
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world, every facet of it. and i think mental health now is probably a bit like alcoholism 50 years ago. everyone i talk to will mention quietly, i know someone, a friend, a family member who fought against depression, against ptsd. it is still not talked about quite as much, but it is there. it is much like alcohol abuse where everyone knew people who were drinking, but it took a long time to feel comfortable talking about it. and we are not there yet, but that is the world we are in. they are not quite willing to talk, but there is a -- an awareness of it and a willingness that is coming. the caller brings up the issue of drones, i remember bringing -- reading a story about a former drone pilot who operated a drone out of somewhere in the washington area experiencing ptsd from the drone operation.
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i don't know if you recall that story. guest: i've read a couple of stories on this. been fighting that sufferperators sometimes the rates higher than pilots. wherever theyafe are sitting. they are watching more in high definition. war in high definition. they are watching a soldier from that unit get killed and they cannot do anything. and that weighs on them. and the of the thing is with high-definition, not to be too graphic, but when a missile is fired by drone and hits a group of men or a car, you can see what it does. you can see the bodies, the body parts, and that takes a toll. a drone operator experiences
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that much more rapidly than a fighter pilot. a pilot drops and the salon off he goes. fires at therator target and hovers there to make sure they got what they were there to get. they are seeing this in tremendous high fidelity. and they are killing people and see what that looks like after. in both cases, it means that run operators are not immune from this. they are suffering ptsd, too. tweet -- for is on the line independents. caller: here in providence i was told two years ago by a hair island saw seven times that she was overbooked and wouldn't see me anymore. they told my congressman that my
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condition wasn't serious enough to warrant their time. in have been suicidal. i don't know what to do. guest: lynn, i'm heartbroken to hear this. there is an organization that i would encourage you to reach out to, when i've done some work with. it's called give an hour. and the website is called these are civilians, therapist across the country, who volunteer their time every week at no charge. it is worth calling. check the website. they will have people in providence who will see you at no charge and keep it confidential. and it was -- and they will try
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to get the help that you need. i'm sorry to hear about pain and the struggle that is evident just in your voice. call the number that was up, go there are people there that will help. hopeful statistic from your book, pentagon has been throwing huge amounts of money at the suicide problem and has put more than $709 on research and traumatic brain injury since 2007. guest: when we think about the medical system writ large, one of the things that you see is things like better ways to treat burns. that is because the military funded it. and then it became a bigger thing in the civilian world as well.
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the military says when you first come in, we will take a battery of tests. when you deploy we will give you a battery of tests. and then when you come back, and then again five or 10 years later. they are putting together the biggest amount of information ever on mental health. and it is changing their findings can't logically. person who suffers,, you can see that part of their brain function differently. -- persons who suffer from trauma, you can see that part of the brain functions differently. for people who thought that this did not exist, this is proving that it does. the research will change not just what we know of and how we see it, but eventually how we treat it. host: we've got about 15 minutes left with yochi dreazen. the book is "the invisible front: love and loss in an era of endless war," recently named one of "new york times" best books of the year. on the line for active and
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retired military members, madison heights, michigan, good morning, john. caller: i have a question. i'm a vietnam veteran and a lot of us are going through ptsd. it's a good book you've got. i was wondering if you've ever thought about doing a study on agent orange for the vietnam veterans. when we came back, we were not treated very well. everyone just ignored us and wanted us to go away. -- and with agent orange getting our older vets, and the suicide from that, i was wondering if you would consider doing a study on that. guest: that's a good point, the fiscal impact of chemicals used theietnam, and frankly, in gulf war. there was a respiratory illness from iraq that they still do not know what caused it. there are physical factors that
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we do not yet know what they are. is next in louisville, kentucky, the line for republicans. -- caller: good morning. i'm not republican, but i will go ahead with my question here. i have read "the invisible front." chi hasondering if yo ," thathe war on the soul speaks about the warrior class and the exposure to the horrors of war. they're looking for a place to go. i don't see that warrior circle being cultivated. i don't see it being cultivated military and i know it's not cultivated in society. my best friends, probably the people i love the most in this world over my own family were
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with me when i was there. i think about them more than i think about civilian family. the memories are just so deep and so real. when i was with them, i felt like a man. i felt that i had value and worth. i do not feel this anymore. andve gone through the v.a. it was a very rough road. you're either going to try to take it and it will work or you don't take it and it won't work at all. but it's a rough road. wondering -- i don't know. i'm getting a little lost here. what are your feelings on that book, and if you've read it, and the warrior class and how important it is to individuals
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who have been through combat. there are a lot of books i've read, but that one, to be honest, is not one that i did. but that was one of the more articulate descriptions about what it's like to come back that i've ever heard. people talk about the intensity, that this was the great adventure of their life and they will never experienced anything like it again. unlike in the non-, we venerate unlike in vietnam, we venerate troops and we thank them for their service. flipside is, most of us don't know anybody who serves. if you live in a major city, the odds of you knowing a veteran are very slim. arethe odd that you served even slimmer. the divide between the two world is profound. when i was researching a book, i talk tok to new york to and extort woman who is now working as a nurse.
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she called me on the train to say, i'm going to be a mess when you get here and i apologize in advance, but i will tell you when you come. one of her husbands best friend in the special forces had been killed in afghanistan that day. as we were walking through new york, all i could think of is, here in every side, melanie is a very fashionable woman, very well put together, and we probably passed 1000 people in a block from her house to the restaurant, and probably none of the new anybody who served and had someone that they love to have been hurt or killed. and here she is sobbing and bawling about someone who was killed in a war that we have largely forgotten. here's the sobbing woman whose life was shattered again by the loss of someone war. host: how did you get to know them, to find out about their story? back: in 2009 i had come after traveling for a couple of months and veterans i was friends with the end is in that
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they had changed, that their wives had looked at them with fear in their eyes, and other chair -- the children were scared of them. couple of them had killed themselves. i went to the pentagon and asked, who is really fighting with this? i did not believe it to be true, the idea that you had a general let alone these two. i thought of myself as a hardened person, but i had to go to the bathroom and/water on my face and come back out because there story was -- their story was so -- and/water on my face and come back out because their story was so powerful. host: mary is up next in vista, california, the line for democrats. good morning and merry christmas. i cannot wait to read your book
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will stop the military, the way they -- read your book. the military, the way they treat the officers, it's are different classes. why doesn't the pentagon take that $700 million they spent on research and spend it on these men and women who have served our country? every american who wants to go to war here, go toward korea, go to war whenever something happens, stop and think about the cost, about what it takes out of these men and women we go over there, when we send them overseas and make them kill for us? we are not paying the price. these unfortunate military people are paying the price. i just think merry christmas to
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all our veterans. mary makes two good points. the first is, we as a society 08 ebt.--owe a d there is a lot of money being spent to hire more doctors, not nearly enough, but there is more money being spent. there is a debt that we oh two people who bought in our name. and unfortunately, it is not something we can write a check and the problem is finished and turn away. treating veterans is not a sexy issuable to many of the veterans of these wars will need help for 40 or 50 years. that is something we have to get our arms around as a country. said, as an you issue that money can fix, you offer some recommendations recently. .ne, gun control what was the rule that you proposed in that article? itst: number one, make
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harder for people to physically use their gun. it's a trigger lock. you actually have to take the key and unlocked it to use the weapon. a lot of times what they are discovering with suicide is that there is depression, but there is one thing that triggers it. there is one moment that says, ok, now i'm going to do it. and if you can delay that, you can actually save that person's life. anything that you can do to make it harder will make it harder for them to kill himself and less likely for them to kill themselves. that is a really cheap thing that is not being done. say,he other is for you to you have served. we think you may have an issue. why don't you store your weapon down at the base? you want to go hunting, you want to go to target shooting, they are safe. no one will still them or take them away, but keep them at the base. you have to go to the base everyday anyway. they come home and day,hing broke them that
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they go to the closet and get their gun. do.hing you can and these are cheap and simple. that takethere bases that step that you are talking about? guest: they will encourage it, but it's not mandatory anywhere. let's go to barbara in florida on that line for family members or members of the military. barbara, good morning. caller: good morning. i would just like to say thank you to c-span for airing this -- ptsd.r i have ptsd, but i have a wonderful doctor, a be a doctor, and my psychiatrist -- a v.a. dr.


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